NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/3995

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 11.3 KB

Path: news.mcs.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Eric Szulczewski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 16:03:01 CST
Organization: Principle of Obscurity BBS
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: obscurity.pd.mcs.net


In a message dated 02-01-96 10-09 George Noel writes:

GN> They are new to handling the Amiga, overseas (their homeground) is their
GN> testing ground to work out all the problems before attempting to move
GN> into North America full force.  This also gives them a chance to gain
GN> capital moreso then they would get in North America right now.

But, George, they have a wonderful example of what not to do.  And they
seem to be wanting to follow in those particular footsteps, if you look
carefully at some of the moves they've made.

GN> >So why are they releasing the 4000T and Net package here in NA?  Why
GN> >not just wait until the PPC?

GN> Because they know most of the demand for the A4000t is in North America
GN> with all the video production companies whom can afford to pay the price
GN> they are looking to get for it.  Why are they releasing the Net package
GN> here? Because they realize it is the most trendy thing in North America
GN> and THEY have the computer that everyone is wishing to be out there for
GN> Net/Web access!  If they don't enter the market now, they could lose it
GN> to Oracle etc.  Why wait for the PPC? Because it is as Dr. P. K said
GN> directly to me in e-mail.. "too long to wait".

What I was responding to with Gary was the "waiting to find an NA
partner before doing anything big" remark.  If they're waiting, then
why are they releasing those systems in NA?  That's all I meant.

As for whether the "S--fer" package will sell, they don't have the
distribution or ad budget of Oracle, so I don't expect it to (this is
NA, folks).

Oh, yeah, George, you came into this late, so I'll just inform you:
don't use Kittel as a source in arguments with me, since he and I are
having a hot running feud ever since he thought I insulted him.
Actually, Kittel's just jealous because I had two Nobel-winning
instructors and he had none in our respective Physics days.

GN> Who the hell even heard of Escom in North America prior to thier bid for
GN> Commodore?

Actually, I did, but I lived in Germany for 2 1/2 years.  But you have
to admit, I live in NA and I've heard of them prior to the buyout...

GN> That point is moot.  Sometimes a new change is needed and so
GN> far it is working ok, this company responsible for the OS coding might
GN> bring us some nice surprises in the future.

Let's hope that we don't get a few nasty surprises along with it.  I
don't want the moral equivalent of DOS sitting on my system.

GN> Escom/Amiga Technologies have no shops in North America

Which may be a good thing, considering what happened in Britain.

GN> and for them to be able to handle all the orders/distribution from
GN> both sides of the ocean is a bit much for them I think.

True, but are they working on a mass marketer with a little
respectability for NA distribution?

GN> Also as far as I know Escom nor Amiga
GN> Technologies are an International company, should they decide to set up
GN> bases here in North America, they have to play by totally different
GN> rules!

They aren't that different, George.  The thing is, Petro promised in
his initial speeches a US presence, and that presence so far has turned
out to be Ed Goof.

GN> Right now I do not think they want to take that chance!

If the Amiga is to make any dent as a "third standard", they'll have
to take a chance and move into NA in a big way.

GN> For some reason a computer that can access the net and web nowadays
GN> cannot be looked at as a toy as it is the in thing and is hip to do,
GN> if people can do it cheaper then more power to them.

George, that's wrong and you know it.  Look at the 1200.  Now look at a
DOS machine.  Think about this from the standpoint of a first-time
buyer.  Which looks like a "computer" and which looks like a "toy"?
It's the physical aspects of the 1200 that I'm arguing about here.
That's why I've said that the low-end should get away from the
all-in-one, additional manufacturing costs nonwithstanding (of course
there will be a price raise; I brought this issue up in a message to
Kittel which has never been responded to).

GN> >GP> And if there are 'some' new buyers, where did they hear about the
GN> >GP> Amiga?

GN> >Word of mouth from Amiga owners, since they haven't put in any

GN> Exactly and sometimes this is good and right now AT has to concentrate on
GN> other things moreso then advertising.

Like what, George?  They can still net more for R&D if they put a
little money into advertising due to increased sales.

As for word-of-mouth, look how far it got the Amiga in the last 11
years.

GN> Granted it IS needed when the Surfer package hits the shelves and
GN> for the Power Amiga, if they or any possible
GN> partners they could have do not advertise from the Surfer on up, THEN you
GN> can start labelling them as Commodore all over again.

Here's one of the main arguments that I've had with Gary, George.  Gary
said it isn't needed until they hit the shelves.  I say that it's
needed BEFORE they hit the shelves in order to build up a sense of
anticipation.  If the "S--fer" is going to be released in a couple
months, there should be ads out right now for it.

GN> Escom/AT has the long term in mind or they wouldn't be building up a
GN> foundation to enter the Nort America market, which they can reap the
GN> benefits from more with the Power Amiga.

But Gary's saying their minds should only be on the short-term, George.
Bring your point up with him, not me.

GN> Let's put it this way, they don't have to do ANYTHING with the Amiga if
GN> they didn't want to.. then how much will the dissatisfaction rate go up?
GN> Be lucky they are doing anything at all and NO company can work miracles
GN> overnight.  I like seeing you voicing your concerns but I think you and
GN> the others are taking it too far, if you have that PC blood in you, you
GN> should choose that path and leave the Amiga to Amigans.

Now that is incredibly insulting.  Just because we choose to criticize
AT, we have "PC blood" in us?  Excuse me, just like a lot of people on
here, I started with a C64 over a dozen years ago, and I've never owned
any system except one made by Commodore.  I don't have one damn drop of
"PC blood" in me.  I'm going after AT because I see them making the
same mistakes that C= made.  I don't want to see that happen.

GN> >Let's see, they drained, by YOUR OWN ESTIMATE, US$85 million over
GN> >calendar year 1995.  Did AT pull in US$85 million in sales in calendar
GN> >1995?  Debits are greater than credits; to me, that means a loss.

GN> Sometimes you have to lose money in order to make it.

So what's wrong with losing a little of it in advertising and
promotion?

GN> If AT is still losing money when the Power Amiga is introduced
GN> and a mass-marketing campaign is in place, then you can start to worry.

But they will be losing money at that point because, without promotion,
sales will never be enough to cover costs.

GN> Not to put words in Dr. P. K's mouth

George, you can't do worse with his words than he already has.

GN> but under frsutration here in one post he said under the
GN> worst conditions we are guranteed one new generation of the Amiga.

But what exactly does "one new generation" mean?  Could the
1200+/1300/whatever be considered a "generation"?

GN> In my opinion, after that, the sales and support for the Power Amiga will
GN> determine if the lowend and mid-ranged PPC Amigas will be built (more then
GN> likely they will as they would sell more) and then if things didn't look
GN> good, no more Amiga advances and they could stick to being PPCP box
GN> movers.

Watch out for that pessimistic attitude, George, or else Gary will be
upset at you...

GN> >And I'm the walking ugly stick for AT.  Just playing devil's advocate,
GN> >Gary m'dear.  It's my job to ask the tough questions and make the
GN> >points others don't want to see, like yourself.

GN> Who says he or anyone else doesn't want to hear the stuff?  I think
GN> anyways going about it the way you are is hurting moreso then helping.

Who cares if you want to hear it?  No one wants to hear bad news.  But
it HAS to be said, and I'm willing to say it.

GN> >Well, my 2000/25 is going along nicely on 3.1.  My next two upgrades
GN> >will be a Picasso II (already have the flicker fixer) and either an 060
GN> >or a PPC card (depending on whether they're going to make one for the
GN> >2000 or not).  After that, the PPC Amiga.

GN> I still cannot see how you have to worry yourself over the A1200 or A1200+
GN> with the machine you currently have and the goals you have for the future
GN> other then you don't like the supposed image the public will associate
GN> the AMIGA with based on these low-end computers.. am I right?

Right.  And it's not just because the 1200 series is "low-end".  It's
also the fact that it's old wine in a new bottle being presented as
something new.  What I don't want the Amiga name associated with is
cheap, old, weak systems.

GN> >As I said, they have their best shots with the PPC.  However, they
GN> >should still make mass marketing deals and ads for the 4000T in NA to
GN> >(re)familiarize the market with the name "Amiga".

GN> The CURRENT A4000t? No way.  The updated one with '060 and possible new
GN> graphics chips? Yes.

Well, we know the 060 part's true, but you keep having these mild
delusions that there's going to be updated chip work, George.  Cold
medication, perhaps?

GN> The current A1200? No.  The A1200 Surfer? Yes.  The A1200+? Yes.

But the 1200+ is just a 1200 with SIMM slots (as we know right now; it
still may change, but not much).

GN> They don't even have to advertise product, they could advertise the
GN> name such as Digitial are doing to get things looking better for the
GN> Amiga.

But you agree that they should advertise, and advertise immediately,
correct?

GN> >they think that bringing in the PPC cold will do it for NA.  A
GN> >preemptive marketing campaign for the PPC once the release date is
GN> >definite is mandatory.

GN> Give them a chance!

Just a statement, George, not a dictate from the Gods.

GN> >I feel happy for you that you still believe in the innate goodness of
GN> >mankind.  I don't.

GN> A meat inspector's life is a cold one! :)

If you're surrounded by the odors of death and dismemberment all day
like I am, you'd have a rather bleak outlook too, George.  Not to
mention that I'm a public employee, and the reason you've never heard
the term "disgruntled meat inspector" is that we tend to use knives and
not guns.

GN> >The Deathbed Vigil, though, dealt with the people at C= in the lower
GN> >and middle management levels and tech people, who really did bleed
GN> >straight into the Agnuses and Denises.  And none of the people in it
GN> >are involved with AT's efforts.

GN> How do you know for sure?

Through Haynie, because a group of people asked if people like he and
Sinz were going to work for AT.

GN> >Eric Szulczewski
GN> >[e-mail]
GN> >(soon to change)
GN> >The Devil's Advocate

GN> I like this MUCh better! :)

I've been using it for a while.  But, you know that I'm also a member
of Team AMIGA, don't you?




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